"There's a whole other life we could live if we're not sick...That became my main motivator for the next 12 years."
"There's a whole other life we could live if we're not sick...That became my main motivator for the next 12 years."
Q & A with Stance Dex, an eating disorder recovery coach, about her own ED recovery
hi friends!
I hope this holiday season has been one of peace, love and comfort thus far.
While I’ve been in eating disorder treatment these past few months, I’ve listened to my peers share their stories and struggles, and it really helped me understand so much about my own experiences and feelings. It’s been comforting to realize I am not alone, I am not the first person to go through this, and there is freedom in bringing our demons out into the light. My goal for this newsletter has always been to normalize what it’s like to go through eating disorder recovery. So for this Q & A, I reached out to my friend Stance Dex, an eating disorder recovery coach based in Texas, to have a conversation about her own eating disorder recovery.
I’d love to do more of these interviews, so if you’d like to chat with me about your recovery, shoot me an email at juliegall95@gmail.com.
Take good care of yourself this week/weekend! Ily!
Julie
P.S. A yearly subscription to weightless would make a great holiday gift for yourself or someone you love ;)
"There's a whole other life we could live if we're not sick...That became my main motivator for the next 12 years."
TW: This interview references specific eating disorder behaviors, sexual trauma, weight loss and gastric sleeve surgery.
Note: This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
Julie Gallagher: Hi! So to get started, tell us a little bit about yourself and your eating disorder story.
Stance Dex: Because of my mother's upbringing, I was brought up pretty deeply rooted in diet culture and I was sort of her ally in dieting. I think I was 8 years old the first time we went to Weight Watchers together. And it was a thing that we would do together. The things that her mom said to her about food and bodies were really rough, and so what she said to me was kind of rough. I can't think of a time that I didn't have some disordered eating going on. I don't remember a time in my childhood that I wasn't trying to be smaller. And I was also always being put on diets. And there was a big rule in my childhood that you always had to have a sport you were participating in, and you had to commit to it for an entire semester at a time. I grew a strong feeling that movement was punishment, and it was something you had to do if you are going to eat. Then I went to college my freshman year as far away from home as possible — from Austin to Boston — and had a really hard time. It was a really, really awful year. I experienced some sexual trauma and isolation, and my eating disorder spiraled out of control. And then on my 21st birthday, my mom came to have high tea with me, and also convinced me to go to [eating disorder] treatment. And I was very sure that she was full of shit. Basically, I said Yeah, everyone eats this way. Everyone exists this way. I hear you, but you're the one that took me to Weight Watchers. So what the hell? But I agreed to do an intake call with a treatment center, and they recommended PHP [partial hospitalization program], and that rocked my world. I couldn't comprehend that someone in a larger body could be that sick. I just didn't comprehend. I didn't feel sick. Everyone was like me. So it didn't make any sense to me. And I started treatment just under a month later, and I was there for several months. That was the very, very beginning of recovery, but that's kind of how that all happened.
JG: A very similar thing happened to me. I was shocked when my doctors told me I needed a higher level of care. I was like, No, I'm not sick enough. No, I am in a bigger body. So it’s always really validating to hear that somebody else also went through that “what the fuck” moment. Because we were sick and had no idea because we thought that having an eating disorder had a certain look. What also strikes me in your story is the generational weight loss effort. That is something I think a lot of families experience. How do you hope that mothers and daughters, or parents and children in general, can approach how they talk about and treat their bodies? What is something that you wish for future generations?
SD: Yeah, this is something that's on my mind right now because I'm working on a parent training course for those who have concern that their kiddo might be struggling with food or their body. It covers the basics: how to break some of those diet culture behaviors or talking points, what things to say to your child, and how to approach food talk and body talk. I think those basics are so important. I know that you and I have talked about atypical anorexia — the most ridiculous and fatphobic diagnosis. So I think education around [what eating disorders actually are and who they impact] would be helpful for families and future generations. I was taught that eating disorders look like emaciated white girls who are maybe making a big deal out of nothing. And that's not the case at all. I think there's so much that parents don't know and don’t mean to do harm, they want their kid to be accepted, and they want their kid to be loved.
JG: It kind of reminds me of the song “Growing Sideways” by Noah Kahan. In it he says “I'm still angry at my parents for what their parents did to them.” It’s a gut punch, because it's so true. It can be generational — you do what you see being done and if you think that is normal, you will likely pass it on. But I hope talking about these things candidly will help limit this generational obsession with body size and shape. Jumping back a little bit, we talked about what led to you entering treatment. What was the process of your recovery like? What was the process of going through treatment like for you?
SD: Yeah, so it was 12 years ago. I would like to believe that a lot has changed, and I also have heard it hasn't. But my treatment [program] was incredibly fatphobic. I was the only person who was willing to talk about binging because I had been incorrectly diagnosed with binge eating disorder. I was fat, so they were like, “Okay, you have binge eating disorder.” I got sicker when I was in treatment, and I learned new ways to fuel my eating disorder and got new ideas. My eating disorder got stronger, louder, and was just taking over. But I managed to get out of there and being out of that environment felt like the most freedom I had felt in a long time. And that was motivating. It was a reminder that there's a whole other life we could live if we're not sick, and how much you miss when you are sick. That became my main motivator for the next 12 years. I think if I hadn't gone to treatment, I wouldn't have gotten there. You know?
JG: Okay, so your big motivation to recover came once you got out of treatment. Being in recovery for 12 years is a really long time, and it’s really comforting to see that it’s possible. It’s admirable to me. What did your journey look like when you got out of treatment? Did you ever experience recovery fatigue — where you felt like the journey to recovery was just too much or too exhausting?
SD: I don't at all mean that I got out of treatment, was motivated to recover forever, and here I am 12 years later, goodbye. Sure, I was motivated to have my life back and that was good. I stopped hating life so much and started to enjoy it a little bit more. I stopped using the most dangerous behaviors that I was using, but I was still really fatphobic. I eventually had gastric sleeve surgery, which still blows my mind that any doctor, psychiatrist, my parents, everyone, agreed to that. I don't know, but my entire treatment team and every person in my life signed off on paperwork to cut 75% of my stomach out as a person with a history of an eating disorder. That started my [eating disorder] all over again. It was so easy to restrict. I was losing weight rapidly and getting complimented by the entire world. And so I had to start recovery over and the motivation this time around was No, I don't want this. I already said I don't want this. I chose [recovery and my life] on my 21st birthday. I don't want to be sick for the rest of my life. This has now morphed into something else. I'm not overeating because I actually medically can't, but I'm under-eating. And I'm abusing exercise again. No, no, no, no. Like, once I realized that ED was back then it was that same motivator of No, I want my life back. No, you don't get to take my life again. That was really hard. It was completely different than the quasi-recovery I was in before. I had to face my own demons and fatphobic ideas, and accept the fact doctors thought it was a great idea to do this crazy medical procedure that I now live with.
JG: Was that something that you brought to your medical team and said you wanted? Or was it recommended for you? What was that conversation.
SD: Honestly, I don't have a strong memory. And I wouldn't want anyone to feel blamed for this situation, because I think we've all learned a lot since then. I think I asked, Is this a good idea? And I don't think anyone said no. Everyone was like, Oh, your insurance will pay 90% of it. You've been working hard to lose weight, you're not binging anymore. This will just help you out. Obviously, everyone will be happier if you're thin. So why don't we help you out and be thin? There was just so much fatphobia fueling that decision, whereas now I’m like, how did that ever happen? And yet, I still, at least once a month, have people message me on Instagram about the sleeve procedure and ask if I recommend it. I used to talk about it pretty openly. I no longer post anything like that, but the pictures and stories do exist. And so people slide into my DMs all the time asking me how to lose weight. And I'm just like, woof.
JG: What's your response to them?
SD: I think that's just a great opportunity for a conversation. They're asking someone who clearly is anti-diet on her social media platforms and is trying to dismantle diet culture. So let’s get to the root - why do you want that procedure? Why does it spark your curiosity? What is the prompting thought or feeling that you’re having? Why are you reaching out to me about it? I was in a bigger body because of my eating disorder. I was in a straight or mid size body all my life, and then my eating disorder put me in a larger body. So I had questions of like, do I ever get to return back to that other body? So I get why people are curious and ask about the procedure, because society makes you feel like you need to be smaller. But let’s talk about all the reasons why that’s not going to give you what you want in life. Because no one ever said that to me.
JG: Right. The world makes living in a bigger body harder. People in bigger bodies are discriminated against like, and just going about your daily life can have additional challenges. The world is built for thin and straight sized people. I think that sometimes gets lost in the conversation, right? We are a product of our environment, and our environment is telling people in bigger bodies that we are bad and our size is not good. So it makes so much sense that somebody just wants their life to feel a little bit easier.
SD: That's my argument with body positivity — it feels unrealistic to me sometimes. People are allowed to not be positive about their bodies 100% of the time. It is okay to exist in society and question if you're good enough. The way you feel is valid and I'm not going to tell you that you can't feel that way, or you shouldn't feel that way and just love yourself no matter what. That feels a bit neglectful.
JG: What does recovery mean to you now? There’s a lot of discourse in the eating disorder community about whether you can ever actually be fully recovered from an eating disorder, or if you’ll always be “in recovery.” What are your thoughts on that? Where do you place yourself?
SD: It's such a good question. I really wrestled with it in conversations with Jayne Mattingly, because my treatment team told me that I would never recover, I would always be in recovery, and I needed to prepare for that. Now that I'm 12 years in and recovered, I can tell you: that’s a lie. I’m past the bell curve. There’s not a single ounce of me that will ever think ED's ideas are a good idea. So I am recovered. But it took so much work to accept that. Here's the thing, I will always talk to ED. It's true. But I'm still recovered. Like, I'm not choosing to listen to him. And I'm choosing to still live my actual life.
JG: One thing I noticed from this conversation and past conversations between us is that you personify your eating disorder by calling it “ED,” just like Jenni Schaefer does in her book Life Without Ed. Why do you do that? Why has that stuck with you?
SD: I'm glad that you asked that question, because I literally talk about him as if he's a human. And I think the reason is: I took a counseling class my freshman year of college, and the assignment was to write a paper in which you break down the different parts of your personalities as TV characters. And it really had me thinking about the different components of my personality. It made me see myself as multifaceted. So when the idea that I could separate ED from who I am as a human being, it clicked. I can easily talk to ED, because I know that who I am is separate from that part of me.
JG: It’s so interesting. Everyone has their own coping mechanisms and approach to recovery. I’ve really struggled with separating my eating disorder from who I am. I am someone who is very corny and cheesy, yet I’ve always rejected personifying my eating disorder. When I read Life Without Ed, I was like fuck this, this is so cheesy and not helpful. But I do see how it can be helpful to reframe and say to myself, I’m not these evil thoughts that I have about myself, other people, and food. I can have multitudes.
SD: One of the things that Jayne said to me and struck me was: it's not about making your eating disorder its own entity, it's just recognizing that you could separate who you are as a person from this thing that you're dealing with and experiencing.
JG: Now that you are so far into your recovery, what is your advice for people on how to navigate the holiday season, which can be particularly challenging for eating disorder recovery?
SD: Setting boundaries is the biggest one. It can be really hard with family and work, but I firmly believe you can set boundaries politely. Change the subject of conversation if you need to. And remember that a win is a win. Our brains, our sick selves, have a tendency to do all or nothing thinking. If you attended a party and there was a lot of food and you at what you could, but maybe didn’t eat your fear food, that is still a huge win. That's a big deal. And you can celebrate that. And you don't have to do it all at once.
JG: Okay, so for my (almost) last question — in my newsletter I often write about the things that have nourished me lately. So, what has nourished you lately? It could be emotionally, socially, spiritually, mentally, physically, whatever!
SD: In March 2022, I decided to become a reader out of nowhere. My last book before that was from college. So it was 0 to 100 real quick. Reading has really filled my cup in a self care way. It really takes me out of my mind. If I'm having a really hard time, a book will take me out of there, which I really like. Decorating our house is another thing that has nourished me. We moved into our new house this year, and I'm obsessed with it.
JG: Is there anything that I didn't ask you that you wanted to touch on?
SD: We talked a lot about being sick enough for diagnosis, or being shocked that we were sick enough. And I think that it's just an important reminder to people that if you are questioning if you're sick enough, then you are sick enough. You don't need a diagnosis to get support.
If you want to connect with Stance or learn more about the services she offers as a coach, check out her Instagram, TikTok @stancedexcoaching, and her website. You can also send her an email at stancedex@gmail.com.